'If we do not wake now, our
civilisation will become extinct'

Perhaps this is a global phenomena. The freedom struggle was a fight against foreign domination. We didn't have any power with us, so whatever we did was to free the country from foreign domination. Whereas with Independence came power and power has a tendency to corrupt.

Secondly, television has led to further deterioration. I do not say stop viewing television or put a ban on it. But we should be more careful about the programmes we televise. I also feel there should be some timings fixed. Watching films depicting sex and violence the whole day is not right. We have just opened our doors to all and sundry media companies.

Each individual should be given some civic training. He should be taught to live as an ideal citizen which is not being done today.

Is idealism dead in the country. Or is it still alive somewhere?

No, we should never lose faith. There is a silver lining. In the country there are a substantial number of dedicated workers trying to work for real development. They do not care for anything and that is a good sign. Consciousness among the people has certainly increased and that is one of the saving factors.

What we have to do now is to build up an infrastructure for the successful working of democracy. It is not merely our boundaries, the mountains and rivers that make a country - it is the people and the type of people. You have to build the character of these people.

Was idealism bypassed by the Congressmen after Independence?

Yes, the Congress of pre-Independence days was certainly much much different from the Congress of today. The Congress of today should not claim to be the continuation of the same Congress.

What I would like to assert is at that time also there might have been some blacklegs. There were lots of funds collected by Gandhiji and other leaders. There were people like Jamnalal Bajaj, Godrej and others that gave substantial funds to the Congress and never asked for accounts. But Gandhiji had trained all his followers in such a way that not a single penny went unaccountable. This discipline that they imbibed from Gandhiji is now missing.

Do you think there could have been some flaws in the policies made by the nation builders that have resulted in this degeneration?

The policies followed by the Congress at that time were quite correct and in the right direction. They were meant for an equalitarian society but the only thing is that we were not able to implement them at all.

The rot set in especially after Indiraji's coming to power. It is not that Nehru's time there was no corruption. Corruption was there but not to this extent.

I wish Lal Bahadur Shastri had survived a little longer then the picture would have been different. After him the standards started coming down and today it has reached its nadir. We could not imagine that our ex-prime minister would stoop to this depth. Sometimes I think we are going down the drain.

Even then I feel this is not the eleventh but the thirteenth hour. As Swami Vivekanand had said, 'You awake, arise,' we can still wake up. If we do not do it now, the battle is lost and our civilisation, the oldest will become extinct and I do not know what will happen to India as a nation.