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The Rediff Interview/Ashraf Jehangir Qazi

'The US cannot offer different packages to Pakistan and India on the CTBT'

Both India and Pakistan are developing democracies. In India, you have a coalition government in a culture that is still to get used to the idea of coalitions. In Pakistan, democracy is still to be institutionalised, though certain recent events show the strength of democracy in my country. The former Pakistani army chief's decision to resign because of certain controversial statements made by him show the deep roots that democracy have taken in Pakistan. These should be seen in the positive context of the deepening of democracy, but that process is always a turbulent one for developing countries. In Pakistan, these tensions are further exacerbated by the imposition of economic sanctions, though we are measuring up to them.

Then we have other aspects within our countries such as different provinces with different views, a free media which expresses its opinions that have to be reconciled. I don't look upon these as instability, these are development processes which are underway, and which by definition are laying the basis for stability. Right now, both India and Pakistan are heading for greater stability.

The challenge is for us to deal with our internal problems and our relations. We can't ignore any one for the other, because these problems have a dynamic of their own and feed into our other problems. Moreover, since Indo-Pak relations are presently subnormal and marked by tension, we can't ignore them, especially in a nuclear context, merely because of our internal difficulties. It merely means that our challenges are that much more difficult. And it is here that the intelligentsia, the media, the political parties need to come in to provide the proper environment for improving ties.

Is Pakistan going to sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty?

On the CTBT, there are many points of similarities between India and Pakistan. Our prime minister recently made it clear that Pakistan was willing to adhere to the CTBT but would not do so on a Cold War basis, under coercion. And that meant that while we are subject to the sanctions, we found that various countries are trying to force the IMF to hold back loans. Under such circumstances, signing the CTBT would be difficult. Both India and Pakistan have become nuclear powers: we are not seeking recognition, we are merely asking countries to acknowledge that fact.

We also insist that the principle of equality should be maintained. This means that while the US negotiates with Pakistan and India to adhere to the CTBT, it cannot offer different packages to the two countries. Pakistan's explosion was a decision forced by India's explosion and the change in the security situation. Now, regarding further development of our nuclear capabilities, we would insist on a policy of equality with India in our negotiations with the US.

Also, we are willing to adhere to the CTBT, but if India were to conduct another test, then we would, under Article 9 of the CTBT, be free to take whatever steps are needed in our security interests.

If the US then has a larger agenda, we are willing to talk with them, as is India. But all this must be in consonance with statements of the P-5 and G-8 which is to look at the whole agenda along with the need to encourage India and Pakistan to ease tensions and look at the core issue of Jammu and Kashmir. They recognise that this is the reason why this whole situation has been brought about, despite India's justification of a larger canvas for going nuclear.

So, Pakistan might be more willing to sign the CTBT given its economic problems due to the sanctions?

Undoubtedly, we are going through a difficult period, but there is a fundamental resilience in the Pakistan economy that is not always appreciated. You know, Pakistan's per capita income, when calculated on a purchasing power parity, is in excess of $ 2,000 a year. This shows that at the grassroot level, purchasing power and jobs exist. This is because there is a large informal economy in the country. This may be a weakness in the long term, but the advantage right now is that there is no abject poverty in Pakistan on a pervasive scale, nor is there any famine anywhere. Jobs are available, even if they are not well paying or the labour is not as skilled as it should be.

So the sanctions may hurt foreign direct investment, growth and IMF programmes, but the do not really impact upon the fundamental resilience of the economy and will not, at least for another two to three years. Of course, we need all the earlier mentioned aspects for infrastructure, education, and social projects, but the country is not on the verge of collapsing as is made out to be. The same is the case for India too.

So we don't need to change our view on the CTBT or compromise our national security simply because of the economic sanctions.

What is Pakistan's role regarding the Taliban?

Pakistan has been actively involved, along with Russia, America, the United Nations and the neighbours of Afghanistan, to try and bring about a stable situation in Afghanistan. We consider the emergence of the Taliban is a political reality that has to be recognised, due to the civil war and disarray in the ranks within Afghanistan. We are still urging the Taliban to take up the problems of the country.

We don't share the Taliban's perception on the social agenda, nor agree with their interpretation of Islam. But we feel the best way to influence the Taliban is to engage and negotiate with them. The Taliban has no extra-Afghan agenda, they do not plant to export their ideas. And once they start governing, they will be force to be moderate in some of their views.

The perception that Pakistan is supporting the Taliban is wrong. The Taliban emerged from the dynamics of Afghan politics which one has to recognise. We have not sided with them in their struggle against the other rivals, internal or external.

What will be Pakistan's role in case of an Iran-Afghanistan war? Will pressure from the Sunni lobby force your country to back the Taliban?

Regarding Iran-Afghanistan, hopefully the chances of any conflict is receding and we are trying to bring about a rapprochement between the two brotherly neighbours of Pakistan. Iran played a major role in opposing the Soviet Union's presence in Afghanistan and we believe that any misunderstanding between Iran and the Taliban can be peacefully addressed. We are quite confident that the situation will ease and I don't think there is any significant chance of any hostility. Our position is that we will not take sides and we expect to be able to ensure peace between them.

Iran is our neighbour and our strategic ally. There is no question of supporting any country against Iran. Pakistan does not regard itself as a Sunni country but as a Muslim country. We don't distinguish and discriminate between Sunnis and Shias.

Recently, the Pakistan government introduced the Shariat bill. Will not such radical measures hurt Indo-Pak relations?

The government did not introduce the Shariat bill to make Pakistan a radical country, but to ensure social justice. These are formulae for social stability, for eliminating poverty, which continue to exist to some extent in the country. Our political efforts have not succeeded completely in eliminating these problems yet, and the effort is to have policies to remove them.

Moreover, there is no one specific law we are insisting upon but on the principles of the Shariat. The Shariat, in our view as Muslims, the most enlightened system of jurisprudence and a forward looking system.

Islam is fundamentally a religion of balance and tolerance. The Koran clearly states that 'Let there be no compulsion in faith, because what is right will become manifest from what is wrong of itself.' The Prophet would always end his sermons by saying 'And upon me is only the duty to convey,' so that the recipient has to receive the message of the Koran and then to react upon his own ethical judgement. But the Prophet did not feel it mandatory to compel that person to follow him.

So we should not judge the Koran and the Sunnah in the light of the certain radical propositions that have been given prominence by the Western media. There are enough Islamic theologians in India to inform of the tolerance of Islam. These are the principles enshrined in the Shariat.

The urge to impose the principles of the Shariat exists in any Muslim society, but it is not directed against any other non-Muslim society. It certainly does not entail any tension with India.

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